Holding Strong: A 50th Anniversary Interview with The Three Degrees, continued

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    During this period, the group went from being a successful nightclub act to nationally charting artists—when "Maybe" hit the top-five of the R&B charts. How did that change things for you? 

    Valerie: I think it gave us a notch up as far as performing. At the time, we were doing stateside clubs like the Copacabana, Americana, and Waldorf Astoria, "Maybe" came along and gave us Caesar's Palace. It widened the work zone. But it wasn't until we recorded with Philadelphia International and started doing international performances that things really jumped off.

    How did you come to sign with Phildelphia International?

    Page 2 of 3

    During this period, the group went from being a successful nightclub act to nationally charting artists—when "Maybe" hit the top-five of the R&B charts. How did that change things for you? 

    Valerie: I think it gave us a notch up as far as performing. At the time, we were doing stateside clubs like the Copacabana, Americana, and Waldorf Astoria, "Maybe" came along and gave us Caesar's Palace. It widened the work zone. But it wasn't until we recorded with Philadelphia International and started doing international performances that things really jumped off.

    How did you come to sign with Phildelphia International?

    Valerie: Richard and Kenny Gamble had a history. It wasn't out of the blue. They'd known each other for some time.

    Your first release with the label was "TSOP (The Sound of Philadelphia)," recorded with the MFSB Orchestra. What was that experience like?

    Valerie: We did the songs with MFSB at the same time that we were recording our own album. It was great to work with them and also get that coverage from [the song being the theme for] Soul Train. It not only power-boosted us here, but it strengthened the launch in other countries. Even now when we go certain places, they ask us to sing "TSOP."

    Shortly thereafter, the group took off in a major way with its self-titled album and now-classics such as "When Will I See You Again" and "Dirty Ol' Man."How did this newfound success impact you?

    Valerie: It was a fantastic time. It gave us the opportunity to showcase all the work we had been doing over the years. To show the different creativities and talent of each individual cemented our name in the business. We'd been working very hard in clubs. Going to other countries and singing in different languages was icing on the cake, as Richard would say.

    Several albums into that newfound success,  Fayette Pinkney left the group. Helen, you returned to the group at this point. How did that unfold?

    Helen: Fayette decided to go back to school and get her master's degree. She did some solo things on her own and became a vocal coach. After I had my first child, there were a couple of times when I was called and asked to come back. I wasn't ready to leave my little one to go out on the road, so I declined. By 1976, she was quite a good size child in school, and I had a son, as well. When they called, I wasn't sure if it was something that I could do. I was the only one who had children. I figured I'd give it a try, and it worked out!

    10 years that had passed since your initial departure from the group. Did you notice any particular changes in the business?

    Helen: Well, the fact that the group had expanded, not only in America, but now abroad. For the most part, the group itself was maintained. So, it wasn't a difficult situation to step into, except for the learning—and trying to catch up.  I only had a short period to cram in a whole lot of stuff. Not only the Philadelphia International material; but also some special pieces—other people's material that was part of our shows. And songs in other languages. It was grueling!

    Valerie, you had witnessed several personnel changes over the 10 years you had been in the group at that point. Those sorts of shifts often break groups apart, but The Three Degrees withstood the challenges. How did you adapt when Fayette left?

    Valerie: We were closer than sisters. We were often in one room, rehearsing almost 24/7. To go through that transition was very stressful. It was weird.

    Helen: They were climbing, almost peaking. For someone to just...

    Valerie: ...pull the rug out from underneath you, wow! We thought we had covered that area where if you decided you wanted to go, at least give the other two the chance to get it together. You're interrupting three other lives here. In a group situation, you [have to] think of business, as well. It was good in having the knowledge that Helen had already been here. That made it so much easier than years later, when she and I had to transition with Sheila going. That was a serious trip. But with Helen coming in, it wasn't like teaching someone how to pat their head and rub their stomach at the same time. She already knew how to do that!

    At that particular time, we were booked to go to Japan and play in some fantastic theatres. We were doing solo spots in the show. Helen not only had to catch up with everything that encompassed the records and stage songs, but she also had to learn a Japanese solo.

    Around the same time, the group transitioned from Philadelphia International to Epic Records. What caused that shift?

    Helen: CBS/Epic was Philadelphia International's distributor. At that point, from what I understand, Kenny Gamble was pulling back a little bit. He wanted to slow down in terms of the record company pace. Our Philly International contract was coming up for renewal, and CBS bought it.

    It seems like there wasn't as much promotion of the group here in the States at that point.

    Helen: Our popularity had become really big abroad, particularly in England and in other parts of Europe and Japan. Our concentration wasn't put so much on America, because we had such a following in those places. Consequently, we'd do one tour, and before we were finished, they were trying to book another tour for three to six months later. We had residence over there for three to six months at a time, but we didn't give up our American citizenship.

    With the lineup of Helen, Valerie, and Sheila on Ariola Records, The Three Degrees reached enviable commercial heights via a string of hits such as "Giving Up, Giving In," "Woman in Love," "The Runner," and "My Simple Heart." How would you describe the direction of the group during this period? Were you happy with the results?

    Helen: It was a very lucrative period for us, working with Giorgio Moroder. Disco was becoming very popular, and he had had huge success with Donna Summer. I don't think there was a particular direction we had in mind, but it seemed to be the general concensus of the record company, management, and us. I think that Ariola, being a relatively new record company at the time, went with the trend to see what kind of success would come about. But the songs were selected in a handpicked way, and they were correct about the songs [that they ultimately selected].

    Valerie: As an artist, you always have to lean on the assumption that it is what's best. For example, when we first listened to "When Will I See You Again" we had no idea that it was going to be the deal-breaker—and for how many years it would be reverberating. Looking back, I don't think that I appreciated a lot of the material. But the songs were good, so you went with the gut instinct of doing the best you could and hoping for the best.

    Helen: I think Ariola did a great job of marketing the product. Even in America, we did a quick mini-tour to promote it.

    Valerie: With no help from Clive Davis! We couldn't seem to get anybody on this side on our side. With our history, it would've been easy for us to parlay our success into something more here. People then thought we didn't want to work in the U.S. That wasn't true. When the labels had the opportunity to make it possible for us to have the same leverage here, nobody took advantage of it.

    After several albums with Ariola, the three of you left the label and started your own company, 3D Records. How did that come about?

    Helen: We parted ways with Richard in 1981. Our agreement was up, and unfortunately, Ariola got caught in the middle. They wanted another album with us. But because of the break up between us and management, Richard wanted to give them a new lineup of The Three Degrees. Ariola didn't want that. Eventually, that died down, and we attempted to do something on our own and present it to Ariola. But at the time, I think they were weary getting caught in a situation with problems hanging over their heads. That's why we released The Album of Love on our own. We didn't have all our ducks lined up in a row. We initially delivered it to Ariola. We weren't intending on putting it out on our own label.

    The Album of Love was largely comprised of ballads. Was that a reflection of changing times? 

    Helen: If you listen to it, you'll notice that a lot of the songs are cover tunes. It was suggested to us that this approach might be something different for us to do. We figured we had everything to gain and nothing to lose. We weren't gonna sink too far, since we had songs like "When Will I See You Again" and "Woman in Love" to support us. We gave it a shot to see what happened. But The Three Degrees have a history, even to date, of so many firsts. Most times, we never get the credit. Somebody will come behind us and do the exact same thing we did, and they're celebrated. When we released that album, people said they wanted to hear original songs. Then, the cover-tunes album concept became very popular shortly thereafter.

    Even throughout the difficulties you experienced on the recording end, the group made its mark with TV specials, live albums, and performances for royalty. What about The Three Degrees do you feel garnered you those special opportunities?

    Helen: Those are the kinds of things we were taught and trained. Our live act was quite polished. With no disrespect, The Supremes had a lot of major hits with one lead singer, and their choreography wasn't anything like what we had. We were taught to work with the canes, like Charlie Chaplin. We used to wear bowler hats and mustaches. Also, our show was not just geared toward the records. Those were the vehicles that perpetuated us to a certain level. Then, we had to maintain that. We were taught that if you could entertain, then you could perform for the rest of your life. We're living proof of that.

    We haven't had a hit record out in a long time, but we continue to entertain audiences worldwide, ages eight to 80. We were always doing [unprecedented] things. Like performing with the London Philharmonic Orchestra—I don't know anyone on the pop or R&B level who had performed in that setting before. We were asked by the BBC to do the first color television special in Dubai. Those kinds of things have a domino effect. It only takes one person to do something. If that's successful, then somebody else comes along and adds something a little different to it.

    Valerie: Those days of being in that one room with those three drawers, rehearsing 24/7, cemented the quality of work that we wanted to show. It was the basis of that which has made the longevity of the group possible. We didn't have any vehicles or records to push us out; so when we stepped on that stage, whatever we did had to roll your socks and knock you out, for us to get that response we were looking for at the end of the evening.

    Helen: From the word 'go,' when we were teenagers, we were never allowed to socialize.

    Valerie: We did not watch other artists. Richard was the one in charge of the material at the time. He'd come to us with a list of songs, and we'd have to learn and choreograph them. We never even had anyone come in to teach us, for recording purposes or stage purposes. Nobody taught us our harmonies...

    Helen: ...until later. There have been times when we've gone into the studio. You have the producers in front of you who know what they want. Rather than waste time—we don't like to linger—we'd ask them, "What is it that you hear and that you want?" Most times they'd say, "You guys work it out." That was a feather in our cap. They trusted our judgment.

    The TV special we did in England was the first time we had any dancers. We used to ask for them all the time. It was a little awkward, because we were used to being out there on our own. We were so used to doing everything ourselves, that when we did have some help we didn't always know had to receive it properly. That was sometimes to our downfall. We did a special in Atlantic City for PBS. We were asked if we wanted background singers, and we said no!

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